Comments on: The proper research on why long toss is bad for your arm!

By: Brent Pourciau

Brent Pourciau — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:31:30 +0000

Ryan,

I am talking about long toss over 180 feet. I basis this information on the ASMI case study referenced in the article that proves elbow varus torque occurs at 180 feet. If you are under 180 feet like you stated here then you are fine.

Arm strength can occur with a good rotator cuff strengthening program, with bands and light weights, or by just throwing but throwing is not the only way. In my career I also threw 120 feet during warm ups and used the hat drill. This is a good warm up drill. This drill will help strengthen your arm but you will need more than this drill to increase velocity. Weighted balls are a more dangerous way to build velocity. Weighted balls used by someone who has all arm mechanics could cause major injury. I believe velocity mechanics are total body, so I use drills with weighted medicine balls using two hands to perform my throws. These drills are in my Ace Pitcher Handbook.

Thanks for the comment!

By: Ryan

Ryan — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:07:02 +0000

My question would be if you don’t long toss then how do you build arm strength? The angle throwing off of a mound creates much more stress on the arm. In my personal experience as a former SEC and minor league pitcher I have always had success with long toss up to 120 ft. It is all about technique in the long toss. If a pitcher is simply trying to reach their target on a fly by throwing rainbows then their mechanics will be effected. If their focus is hitting their target on a line with little arc on their throw then they are getting the most out of long toss and building arm strength properly. It is also a good drill when long tossing to put an object such as a hat about 20 feet in front of your target when reaching 100-120 ft. By creating a small target in front of the intended target it will force the player to throw on a line with proper extension. If their is one thing that bugs me about baseball these days it would be the rainbow long tossing I see everywhere even at the professional level. Just a side note on how long toss has helped me…my college coach had us go through a weighted ball long toss program during the off-season. The average gain in velocity after program was 7 mph. I went from 89-90 to 95-98. I firmly believe in long toss as the only way to truly build arm strength and gain velocity.

By: john doe

john doe — Tue, 24 Nov 2009 16:20:08 +0000

Dick Mills finds some washed up kid “trying to get back into pro ball” and compares him with the best pitcher in baseball. Then he says that since the kid is at Jaegers facility that he can assume that he is doing everything correctly and compares him to the best pitcher in baseball. Then he does not mention that Lincecum long tosses as much as anyone! I have seen him plenty of times stretch it out well over 300 feet with a high arc. Like said above, the kid in the video is not a good example of what long toss should look like and you are comparing him to some of the best (In my opinion) mechanics in all of baseball.

Also, there is so much talk about how useless longtoss is because you never throw more then 60 ft in a game. You are right, pitchers never throw more then 60 feet. But they also dont do squats, lunges, rows, bench press etc during a game either, so does it make weight lifting useless? I dont think so. Long toss simply trains the muscles similarly to resistance training the weight room

By: Don Ervin

Don Ervin — Mon, 23 Nov 2009 20:04:48 +0000

In my opinion from my knowledge of pitching and observing pitcher after pitcher, game after game “HERKY JERKYING” RECOILING” their arms,short striding, early rotation, throwing across their body’s, stutter step “STRIDING” starting then hesitating the stride, taking all day “SLOW MOTION” from start to stride finish, then all of the sudden here goes the arm only exploding with nothing else, “NO BODY ASSISTANCE” with it to throw the ball to it’s intended target is one reason why there are the huge numbers of pitchers and potential pitchers with chronic sore arms and surgeries from the major leagues down through the minor systems on down into our youth as young as 13 yrs. old. Before I signed a professional baseball contract I spent many hours throwing from the outfield starting at age 12yrs.old and then also in the minor leagues, I am now 77 yrs. old and can still throw decent batting practice to high school and college players at 50 ft. of course, if I do not come up with a wild streak at the time. What I observe is that there is too much over distance long toss throwing and substituting long toss and other things and not near enough time spent on bull pens and on mound throwing for pitchers.
The main reason for the sore arms and surgeries and other throwing inadequacy’s is the drastic need to have an experienced, knowledgeable, competent “PITCHING” “TEACHER” who can teach them how to properly pitch with their whole body’s from the ground up to alleviate the tremendous strain created on the arm when throwing a baseball
Hitters have the same delemma here.
Don Ervin
kom-ervin@yahoo.com

at the time

By: Jeremy M.

Jeremy M. — Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:03:16 +0000

Not sure why the Dick Mills video is up there. I understand it is in support of the article, but it is just irrelevant. Dick Mills is comparing a Cy-Young award winner who has the most unique mechanics in all of baseball to a random person who he associated with Jaeger. I have no association with Jaeger myself, other than a clinic I attended at the age of 15 ten years ago, but I played long toss my entire career and not once did I ever look as bad mechanically as that kid in the video. Long toss is valuable only if done correctly, just like anything else. Drinking water is harmful to the body if you make a bad decision and drink too much. In the same way, long toss must be done correctly to be helpful.

By: Jackson

Jackson — Mon, 09 Nov 2009 05:26:53 +0000

i would most deffinently agree that long toss is bad for baseball players. Dick Mills is the only guy, until now, that has not bought into this whole long toss stuff. Every one i know thinks long toss is good for you. Back in the “old’ days pitchers didn’t long toss, and they didn’t miss starts. They threw a lot in between games. Why have we become so overprotectective with pitch counts and everything? It’s rediculous.

By: Brent Pourciau

Brent Pourciau — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 05:00:04 +0000

This is because I am talking about long tossing more than 180 feet. I do not believe that he is an advocate of this.

By: will

will — Fri, 18 Sep 2009 01:36:46 +0000

i think its strange that you guys say so many great things about tim lincecum on this site but say long toss is bad for you when lincecum is a huge advocate for long toss

By: Brent Pourciau

Brent Pourciau — Sun, 16 Aug 2009 16:13:07 +0000

I would agree with your comparison of plyos to long toss on the arm muscles but remember that plyos is breaking down the muscles of the legs and core. These are big muscle groups that can heal overnight. Long tossing breaks down the delicate muscles of the rotator cuff and arm. These are small muscle groups that take a few days to heal. This is why arm recovery is a major problem for pitchers and this is the main point of the article. Long tossing 180 feet plus forces the body to use more arm because of the trajectory of the throw. Therefore using long toss to “Strengthen your arm” is risky because it is putting a lot of stress on your shoulder and elbow. If your arm isn’t recovering quick enough you are vulnerable to damage. There are many other ways to build velocity that are a lot safer and in my book more effective.

By: David

David — Sat, 15 Aug 2009 04:25:36 +0000

Proper form in any body movement is key but the only way to gain max arm speed is to overload your arm with long toss. The same way plyos and any other extreme weight program there are risks and of course huge rewards if your body can take the abuse you are asking it to take. Anybody that says long toss is not good for your arm to develope strength and endurance has never fully tried long toss for an extended period of time. Your arm is a muscle just like your legs how fun was it the first time you squatted ? But you keep on lifting and lifting and with better form each time it get easier to lift more wieght. NOT A SERMON JUST A THOUGHT